I have just been directed to a post by an Australian priest, Fr Fleming, who disagrees with a comment I made on the site of Fr Finnegan (http://valleadurni.blogspot.com/) which was copied to the 'English Catholic' ( http://catholicusanglicanus.wordpress.com/2012/02/21/a-critical-comment/#comments ) for comments.
Identifying me, incorrectly, as Paul Donovan, Fr Fleming insists I am wrong when it comes to Archbishop Hepworth (Primate of the Traditional Anglican Communion) and that he has not refused to enter the Catholic Church as a layman, given the difficulties of his position as a former Roman Catholic Priest with an irregular marriage situation, but is continuing to consider his decision, commenting:
"Archbishop Hepworth has not rejected Rome’s judgement and nor has he refused to return to the Catholic Church. I do not know where Paul has got this from, but he is quite wrong."
My comment was based upon the remarks made by +Hepworth himself when he wrote that he intended to remain the Bishop of the Anglican Catholic Church in Australia (retaining oversight in Japan) and the Primate of the Anglican Catholic Church of Canada. I would assume that was a decision to not return to the Roman Catholic Church.
If I am incorrect, I apologise, but it is difficult to know what else can be meant by Archbishop Hepworth's own statements.
If I may say so, Fr Chadwick's added comment is unfair :
"We need a reaction against the prevailing wisdom that would have Archbishop Hepworth go down in history as a fraud, a madman or whatever. More reactions like that of Fr Fleming would be welcome, to show that some do care."
I have not claimed he is a fraud or a madman, I have simply expressed some upset based upon his own comments. I both care about his situation and pray for him.
Perhaps Fr Fleming could clear up the confusion for those of us who are suffering it?
The Communion of Saints
I hope there's room for me.
Showing posts with label Ordinariate; Anglican; Anglo-Catholic; Church of England; Catholic; Keith Newton. Show all posts
Showing posts with label Ordinariate; Anglican; Anglo-Catholic; Church of England; Catholic; Keith Newton. Show all posts
Saturday, 25 February 2012
Brilliant article on becoming a Catholic
I have just read this brilliant article which is as good as any on this issue that I have read:
http://catholicexchange.com/how-not-to-become-a-catholic/
As someone involved with the Travelling community over many years, I am used to those converted to one of the 'Gypsy churches' trying to give me a hard time and sending me Videos, DVDs and tapes of anti-Catholic diatribe.
One of my favourites included a pastor reading from the 'up to date Catholic Catechism' (it wasn't) to prove that we worshipped idols. The problem was that even the version he was reading clearly states that we cannot worship statues, etc. because "they have eyes, but they cannot see, ears but they cannot hear, lips but they cannot speaking, with their mouths...". I am sure you get the picture. The problem is that he ignored what it said and nobody challenged him, not least because most of them couldn't read.
He also tried to use it to prove that Catholics offered sacrifices despite them being replaced by the one sacrifice of Christ. Hilariously, he clearly read out the teaching that the Sacrifice of the Mass is the "one, unrepeatable Sacrifice of Christ" and then said "there you are, they say it themselves - they offer new sacrifices."
Bizarre but not as bizarre as once devout Catholics telling me that when they were Catholics they worshipped statues; when I enquired as to when they had done this, given the fact that, prior to conversion, they had argued that they had never done such a thing, I was met with silence.
The funniest book I received is called "Far from Rome and close to God" which purports to give accounts of former Catholic priests converting to their brand of Christianity. Read it and you find a mix of real conversions, made up stories, some rather kind men who are gracious about their former Catholic community, a priest who had been involved in astrology (not a Catholic thing at all), long dead pastors and, most tellingly, the account of a Roman Catholic Benedictine priest from Manchester who not only didn't leave but was a teacher at my old school and whose Requiem Mass in 1970 was celebrated by the Bishop as he was in good standing with the Church.
In the end, when it comes to the ranting, I learned what is described in one part of the article - I listen, have a cup of tea and, when people are ready to chat, we do.
http://catholicexchange.com/how-not-to-become-a-catholic/
As someone involved with the Travelling community over many years, I am used to those converted to one of the 'Gypsy churches' trying to give me a hard time and sending me Videos, DVDs and tapes of anti-Catholic diatribe.
One of my favourites included a pastor reading from the 'up to date Catholic Catechism' (it wasn't) to prove that we worshipped idols. The problem was that even the version he was reading clearly states that we cannot worship statues, etc. because "they have eyes, but they cannot see, ears but they cannot hear, lips but they cannot speaking, with their mouths...". I am sure you get the picture. The problem is that he ignored what it said and nobody challenged him, not least because most of them couldn't read.
He also tried to use it to prove that Catholics offered sacrifices despite them being replaced by the one sacrifice of Christ. Hilariously, he clearly read out the teaching that the Sacrifice of the Mass is the "one, unrepeatable Sacrifice of Christ" and then said "there you are, they say it themselves - they offer new sacrifices."
Bizarre but not as bizarre as once devout Catholics telling me that when they were Catholics they worshipped statues; when I enquired as to when they had done this, given the fact that, prior to conversion, they had argued that they had never done such a thing, I was met with silence.
The funniest book I received is called "Far from Rome and close to God" which purports to give accounts of former Catholic priests converting to their brand of Christianity. Read it and you find a mix of real conversions, made up stories, some rather kind men who are gracious about their former Catholic community, a priest who had been involved in astrology (not a Catholic thing at all), long dead pastors and, most tellingly, the account of a Roman Catholic Benedictine priest from Manchester who not only didn't leave but was a teacher at my old school and whose Requiem Mass in 1970 was celebrated by the Bishop as he was in good standing with the Church.
In the end, when it comes to the ranting, I learned what is described in one part of the article - I listen, have a cup of tea and, when people are ready to chat, we do.
Wednesday, 6 July 2011
Sorry Deborah
May I say sorry to anybody I offended with my last blog - it wasn't intended as a dig at the Traditional Anglican Communion in general or the Anglican Catholic Church of Canada in particular. Across the blogwaves may I pour oil on troubled waters.
I look forward to the setting up of the Ordinariates in the USA and Canada later this year and I appreciate how much is being given up by those on their way.
My point still stands - let's stop the sniping and love the Liturgy.
I look forward to the setting up of the Ordinariates in the USA and Canada later this year and I appreciate how much is being given up by those on their way.
My point still stands - let's stop the sniping and love the Liturgy.
Friday, 24 June 2011
Thursday, 9 June 2011
Ordinariates - a good thing?
I have been absolutely fascinated by the creation of the Ordinariate of Our Lady of Walsingham and the preparations for the Ordinariates in other countries. Historically, I find the idea attractive in that the Church has created a space for Anglicans to be united with the See of Peter whilst retaining something of their traditions and culture, which have grown up over the past five centuries.
This in itself is not without precedent as it has its roots in the creation of Anglican Use parishes in the United States back in the 1980s - these are parishes where former members of the (Anglican) Episcopal Church were received into the Roman Catholic Church and allowed to retain much of their 'patrimony' (a fascinating word which seems to excite much debate between different Anglo Catholic groups), in terms of liturgy and practise. From very small communities, parishes have flourished - I encourage people to visit the website of two of the Anglican Use parishes in Texas, http://www.walsingham-church.org/site/Welcome.html and http://www.atonementonline.com/intro.php.
In our own country, by the end of this month, somewhere over 60 men will have been ordained to the priesthood, a couple to the 'transient' diaconate and one as a permanent deacon. With the 900+ lay members we see the beginning of something that could be very exciting in terms of the future of the Catholic Church in the UK and be a trailblazer for much that is to come in the years ahead around the world.
I have only a couple of niggles - one comes from the fact that I have recently been following discussions on some of the blogsites favoured by Anglo-Catholics (or Anglican Catholics) and am frankly depressed by the poisonous atmosphere between those who wish to take up a place in the Ordinariate and those who wish to continue swimming in the ever decreasing circle which are the 'continuing' Anglican groups around the world. I have to make clear that I am not referring to any of those in the UK here, but those who are mostly in North America. I say to those who are on their way into the Ordinariate - shake the dust off your feet when you arrive and let these arguments go - it is in the joy that you will feel that will give the best answer to the naysayers. To those who aren't coming - don't.
My other niggle is to do with people who are holding back from entering just now; please do not misunderstand me, I don't refer to those who are truly on a journey which may eventually bring them into the Ordinariate (or even into the Church without the Ordinariate). I refer to those who are 'waiting to see what is on offer' before making a choice. Be it those who are waiting to see whether or not the General Synod of the Church Of England will give them another compromise to allow them to remain 'Catholic and Anglican' or those who want to be sure that joining the Ordinariate will not require any real change on their part, allowing them to keep their positions and authority (here, I admit, I am throwing a stone in the direction of the USA and its continuing communities). If you have truly prayed for unity, it is on offer; you cannot use the threat of joining the Ordinariate as a bargaining chip with the General Synod nor can you expect that this journey makes no demands of the individual making it.
So, best of luck to all of you who have already joined the Ordinariate in the UK or those eagerly awaiting the erection of the same in other countries. You are all in my prayers.
This in itself is not without precedent as it has its roots in the creation of Anglican Use parishes in the United States back in the 1980s - these are parishes where former members of the (Anglican) Episcopal Church were received into the Roman Catholic Church and allowed to retain much of their 'patrimony' (a fascinating word which seems to excite much debate between different Anglo Catholic groups), in terms of liturgy and practise. From very small communities, parishes have flourished - I encourage people to visit the website of two of the Anglican Use parishes in Texas, http://www.walsingham-church.org/site/Welcome.html and http://www.atonementonline.com/intro.php.
In our own country, by the end of this month, somewhere over 60 men will have been ordained to the priesthood, a couple to the 'transient' diaconate and one as a permanent deacon. With the 900+ lay members we see the beginning of something that could be very exciting in terms of the future of the Catholic Church in the UK and be a trailblazer for much that is to come in the years ahead around the world.
I have only a couple of niggles - one comes from the fact that I have recently been following discussions on some of the blogsites favoured by Anglo-Catholics (or Anglican Catholics) and am frankly depressed by the poisonous atmosphere between those who wish to take up a place in the Ordinariate and those who wish to continue swimming in the ever decreasing circle which are the 'continuing' Anglican groups around the world. I have to make clear that I am not referring to any of those in the UK here, but those who are mostly in North America. I say to those who are on their way into the Ordinariate - shake the dust off your feet when you arrive and let these arguments go - it is in the joy that you will feel that will give the best answer to the naysayers. To those who aren't coming - don't.
My other niggle is to do with people who are holding back from entering just now; please do not misunderstand me, I don't refer to those who are truly on a journey which may eventually bring them into the Ordinariate (or even into the Church without the Ordinariate). I refer to those who are 'waiting to see what is on offer' before making a choice. Be it those who are waiting to see whether or not the General Synod of the Church Of England will give them another compromise to allow them to remain 'Catholic and Anglican' or those who want to be sure that joining the Ordinariate will not require any real change on their part, allowing them to keep their positions and authority (here, I admit, I am throwing a stone in the direction of the USA and its continuing communities). If you have truly prayed for unity, it is on offer; you cannot use the threat of joining the Ordinariate as a bargaining chip with the General Synod nor can you expect that this journey makes no demands of the individual making it.
So, best of luck to all of you who have already joined the Ordinariate in the UK or those eagerly awaiting the erection of the same in other countries. You are all in my prayers.
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